Talk:Yuuki Kagurazaka

Hello fellow editors
'''I have changed the claims that "Yuuki is, at his core, a compassionate and caring person who wants to do everything in his power to help other people. His ideology is that of 'Freedom' and he hates people and things that restrict the freedom of others in any way" as this was clearly misinformation. A person who was involved in selling of children, as well as murder and instigating murder cannot be considered compassionate. Bear in mind, he allowed his subordinate Clayman to go around enslaving subjects and killing. Indeed, he has shown a willingness to manipulate, murder and deceive to achieve his dreams of world domination. One could say that later in the LN, he transitions to more of an ally, but that is due to him having no choice, being forced to work under Guy Crimson, and later on, due to common enemies.''' -- Mathchem


 * The otherworlder slave trade had already been going on as a deal between Leon, Granbell, and Damrada well before Yuuki was ever born.(Ref:Chapter of Shizue Izawa, Adventurer Edition Part 2) When you consider that Yuuki spent alot of his resources secretly recovering the otherworlders and sending most of them to the safer east(Ref:Volume 12, Chapter 3) combined with the fact that he can't just spit in Leon's face and end the deal without a valid reason... This does not contradict being kind and compassionate or anything else within his personality section. If Yuuki had decided to cut off the deal without warning then he risks incurring the wrath of Leon and him not being under mind control would instantly be found out by Mariabell and Granbell. His tolerance of the situation is not contradictory to his personality and the fact that he ended the deal with Leon as soon as possible (the second Mariabell was no longer an issue) if anything supports his good nature. He also states that he abhors slavery (Ref:Volume 8, Prologue), that he finds the idea of Granbell's racism hilariously stupid (Ref:Volume 11, Chapter 3), and that he cannot bring himself to harm innocent people. (Ref:Volume 12, Prologue). He also spared Vega, a 10 year old child that was going to be killed by Shizu just because he was a majin (as far as is stated, he only ate corpses and didn't kill people). The only person Yuuki has ever killed is Mariabell, when he had no other choice. He'd already tried every other method to deal with her and failed. If she was left alive the west would've been enslaved by her. They only decided on killing her after many many years and only because she was the direct antithesis of everything Yuuki stood for. An absolute force of oppression.(Ref:Volume 18, Chapter 3). Even with his Coup in the east he planned for a bloodless revolution by controlling Rudra with Mammon and having the Empire join the council.(Ref:Volume 12, Chapter 3) He also consistently says his goal is to not become enemies with Rimuru and that he wants to work alongside him, even before the ordeal with Guy.(Ref: Volume 10, Prologue) The ordeal with Clayman was less out of Yuuki's hands than you let on as well. Yuuki had minimal contact with Clayman and they rarely met in person, usually it was just Laplace keeping Yuuki up to date with what Clayman was doing and Yuuki working that into his strategies. Both Yuuki and Laplace admit that Clayman was acting weird and cruel, but they wrote it off as being caused by Stress. Yuuki is an extremely busy person, especially with all the stuff Mariabell was making him do, so he didn't really have time to go visiting Clayman on the other side of the continent very often. Also, we have no idea when it was that Clayman bought and killed all those slaves. It was most likely between him being controlled by Kondou but before Yuuki was summoned. Either way, without concrete evidence as to when it takes place we cannot place any blame on Yuuki for not stopping it. Yuuki openly admits to 3 mistakes he's made. Those being having Damrada inform Hinata about Rimuru, falling for Granbell's lies, and failing to notice Clayman was being controlled by Kondou. He admits these are mistakes and actively regrets them, which are not characteristics common with evil characters. With all information presented, Yuuki is ultimately a person who lacks evil or immoral motivations and only does unsavory actions when he has no choice (or feels as if he has no other choice). He uses peaceful solutions first and foremost, has the wellbeing and interests of the innocents at heart, and ultimately acts out of desire for everyone to live freely and fairly. There is not enough evidence to support calling him evil and a lot of what you described is outright contradicted by the story. Please be sure to keep any personal feelings or biases towards the characters outside of your edits. SkREIIII (talk) 22:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I have never called him "evil"; you are using a strawman argument. As a matter of fact, I do not believe he is evil as it is clear his character develops throughout the story. By the later part of the LNs, he is closer to an antihero who has clear and practical reasons behind his actions.


 * What I did claim is that calling him compassionate is a mischaracterisation. He has clearly demonstrated a willingness to manipulate others. He also decided to participate in selling otherworlder children in order to get close to Leon. These things are not what compassionate people do, though you may disagree. Everyone has their own moral standards, and some believe that being an accomplice in the selling of children is compassionate; I am not one to judge. I agree, that he was partially manipulated by Damrada. However, the actions he made were still ultimately his. He also demonstrates a manipulative nature and has shown a willingness to instigate conflicts in order to benefit himself. For instance, in LN12 he clearly states that he intends "to pit [Gadra] against Demon Lord Rimuru" to weaken both sides. While he grows as a character after taking many losses, to portray him as purely a good person is clearly wrong. Here is a quote by narrator in LN12 about Yuuki after he awakens Ultimate Skill ‘Greedy King Mammon’,
 * On that day, at that moment, at that place, the foulest majin was born.


 * Now, while I hope you will stop using false premises and unfounded assertions, I also acknowledge that may will ignore what I have typed entirely to maintain your agenda. -- Mathchem


 * The only "Agenda" I have is making sure the information presented is accurate. Yuuki is empathetic and doesnt wish harm to come onto innocent people. That's compassion. The whole selling children thing was something he was forced to do by the Rosso, it was either do it or throw any chance he had at taking them down by throwing away his cover. Thus its really an invalid point to bring up in a conversation about someone's morals and personality, as its under duress. If you wish to better describe Yuuki's personality, please do so without ignoring almost all of his character, as your previous edit . All you did was paint him as a completely "red" character when he's somewhere between Green and Grey. The execution was poor, focusing on singular aspects of his character instead of the big picture.SkREIIII (talk) 08:24, 18 October 2023 (UTC)